"First I have to listen"

For the second time, the Ev.-luth. Mission in Lower Saxony (ELM) invited guests to a menu of encounters.

The format takes place related to the Friedensort2GO of the ELM, an approximately 4-kilometre-long pilgrimage path through Hermannsburg with stations that invite people to reflect on the topic of peace.

How and why am I committed to peace? What does peace actually mean and why is it often so difficult to resolve conflicts even in the closest environment? Bradn Buerkle and Claudia Dettmar-Müller talked about this over dinner at the "Auszeit" restaurant in Beckedorf. The meal was accompanied by questions that prompted the two, who had never met before, to exchange ideas.

Claudia Dettmar-Müller has been mayor of the city of Bergen since 2019, which, against the backdrop of the history of the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, gave itself the name "City of Peace and Internationality" several years ago. As the non-partisan head of the town administration, but also as a historian and political scientist, she sees it as her responsibility to assist the town to live up to this title.

Bradn Buerkle grew up in Montana/USA and studied Russian cultural studies and theology. From 2000 to 2022, he lived in various cities in Russia and worked there as a pastor and a theology lecturer. After Russia's invasion of Ukraine, he experienced political restrictions on his work and decided to emigrate to Germany with his family. At ELM, he works as a consultant for the cooperation of ELM with the partnerchurch in Russia and for theological education and training in churches internationally.

 

How did you come to be involved with the topic of peace both privately and professionally?

Bradn Buerkle: I grew up on a farm in the USA. I experienced anger and aggression in my own family, but there is also a lot of violence in American society. You have a gun at home, actually for hunting, but also to defend yourself and your country if necessary. I never agreed with this way of life, nor with the wars the Americans were waging, and I demonstrated against it.

Claudia Dettmar-Müller: I actually had a very harmonious childhood. But in the 1970s, my father often talked about politics and that Russia might attack Europe. I was afraid of that as a child. I thought about why there are wars and why people can be violent. And I went to demonstrations in favour of peace. When I was 19, I spent a year working on a kibbutz in Israel. I knew nothing about the problems of Jewish and Palestinian people when I got there. But during that year, I started to look into these as well.

Bradn Buerkle: And what did you learn in Israel?

Claudia Dettmar-Müller: A lot about their conflicts. Back then, I had a big heart for the Palestinians. I then started to study Middle East politics and history. And that changed my perspective. I realised that there is often a big difference between what governments do and what people want. And the more I have learnt about the history of the Jews, the more I see both sides.

Bradn Buerkle: Yes, education helps you not to become fundamentalist because you realise that it is not possible to live without contradictions. I have studied Tolstoy a lot. He was a great advocate of non-violence in his literature, but this was not reflected in his family life. Or take Mahatma Gandhi. In South Africa, people criticise him for standing up for the people of Indian descent, but not for the "blacks". And church history is not a history of peace either. For me, it is important to remember Jesus and the peace he spoke of.

 

Civil courage is closely linked to a commitment to peace. Have you experienced anything encouraging in your environment?

Claudia Dettmar-Müller: Civil and moral courage is very important from my point of view. But when you talk about your political views, you have to make sure that the people you are talking to listen and understand what you are saying. I have learnt that I have to listen first. Otherwise the others won't listen to me either. For example, I would like to spread the work of the Bergen-Belsen Memorial even further beyond the city limits.

I also find our annual World Peace Day event in Bergen encouraging. We started this in September 2020. The first time we had around 20 people on Peace Square, last time the square was full.

Bradn Buerkle: It's interesting for me to see that people in Germany really feel that they can make a difference with civil and moral courage and social commitment. It's totally different in Russia. Most people there have resigned themselves to their private lives.

Claudia Dettmar-Müller: What do you think about the demonstration in Unterlüß against the AfD party conference?

Bradn Buerkle: I have mixed feelings about it. The missionary organisation supports the demonstration and in connection with Christian values it makes sense to me. On the other hand, I ask myself: will it help to reduce the division in society and will people be prepared to listen to us as a church when we say: "We are against you"?

Claudia Dettmar-Müller: Sometimes it wakes people up more when you do something unexpected. I was talking to someone the other day who told me that the most disarming thing is when you face people with a smile.

Bradn Buerkle: Jesus found a good way to interact with people. He didn't necessarily meet them with a smile, but on a different level. It wasn't about being for or against something. He understood that we are all small and weak and have different fears and that these often drive our actions and even our misbehaviour.

 

Have you ever experienced being misunderstood or antagonised because you stood up for peace?

Claudia Dettmar-Müller: Yes. Peace should actually start at grassroots level. But that's not so easy. Bergen consists of 13 different villages. I would say that my wish is to bring people together. But we are still a long way from that. The fronts are pretty hardened.

Bradn Buerkle: I recently spoke to a German pastor about German society. He said that the idea of forgiveness is not very pronounced here.

Claudia Dettmar-Müller: That's right, we sometimes treat each other very harshly. But wouldn't it actually be the church's job to teach us forgiveness? People are leaving the church at a time when it might be needed more than ever.

Bradn Buerkle: The church in Germany is different to that in America or Russia. It is often still foreign to me too. I have the feeling that many people here have more of a cultural connection to Christianity than a spiritual one.

 

What motivates you to work on peace and to uphold the vision of peace?

Bradn Buerkle: For me personally, faith plays an important role in this, as it connects us to a common goal. Every religion is different, but empathy is always part of it.

Claudia Dettmar-Müller: I think for me it's simply my character and the hope of changing something for the better. When we sit here and talk like this, we agree on almost everything about how to achieve peace. But in my work, I realise that I sometimes behave differently than I actually want to. This conversation tonight is like a kind of reset button for me to ask myself: where do I stand and what do I want? I believe that as long as you reflect on yourself from time to time, you're not lost.

Bradn Buerkle: Yes, you have to look after your own soul, that's important. Only then can you be open to others.